Making Innocence More Fun: The Thread

[UnInvincible]

I think barricading in TTT is dumb.

[Shadow_Archmagi]

I think barricading in TTT is dumb.

I dunno, I mean, on one hand, it offers SOMETHING for players to do. It's kinda fun to get mysquirrel and worbat and build a tree house.

Until one of us kills the others because with three people there's good odds one is traitor, and also the fact that we almost never suggest it outside of traitorhood.

Of course, I realize now that Uninvicible wasn't saying "Barricading is a poor game mechanic and not fun"

He was simply pointing out that it's a really stupid move because barricades don't actually help in firefights.

[me]

I don't find exploring the map with a vigilant eye on everything that occurs to be aimless wandering.

Which is much more fun than barricading up until the point where you get murdered and have to sit there for 20 minutes watching several other people sit in a room looking at each other.

[Bad King Urgrain]

I find barricading tends to be detrimental to the game. The maps that do more to prevent it tend to be much nicer to play.

[TheCze]

I don't think that barricading as a that big problem, because Traitors can easily C4 people out. A bigger problem is players hiding in spots which are really tough to find and play Hide-and-Seek as last innocent alive vor ten minutes.

[Shadow_Archmagi]

I don't think that barricading as a that big problem, because Traitors can easily C4 people out. A bigger problem is players hiding in spots which are really tough to find and play Hide-and-Seek as last innocent alive vor ten minutes.

Yeah, that's the real problem.

When it's "Oh well Eeny is hidden up in the apartments" it isn't much trouble to get rid of him.

[JossiRossi]

I tend to use my traitor item long before someone has decided "I'm going to hide in this room the whole round" so I often don't have C4 at my disposal.

[Marauder8]

I tend to use my traitor item long before someone has decided "I'm going to hide in this room the whole round" so I often don't have C4 at my disposal.

Yeah. I buy my traitor item just at the start of the round, never know when I might need it.

[Shadow_Archmagi]

I find barricading to be one of the most effective traitor tactics; cade with one traitor and one non-traitor, kill the non-traitor, and then shoot everyone who comes near and say "OH IT IS JUSTIFIED HE WAS ATTACKING MY BOX FORT!" and everyone will be like "HMMM" and then you'll be like "Oh come on I wouldn't be camping if I was the traitor"

and everyone will believe you.

[ibor10]

I think it's possible to program this into maps now. Maybe we could convert the zm maps to do this properly.

it is possible to put in objectives now but

Allright allright, I'll add a ttt_win entity so objective based maps can do something with that. But if it ends up like ZM where I have to memorise a small novel for each map just to know what I have to do I will murder everyone involved with said maps. Give innocents something to do, but don't make it an intricate mini-story or whatever the fuck. The fact that game_text doesn't work in gmod is a boon in that respect.

[Qloos]

Terrorists, (and traitors.) should be able to manufacture drugs to raise funds for their terrorist activities.  Money, albiet a useless item with no practical in game use, can be pulled out and dropped or scattered everywhere in a cloud when a lucrative terrorist gets killed.

"Holy shit!  Look at all that money fly, I think you killed the wrong guy!"
"Bullshit, he's obviously a traitor that stole it off of his victims"
"Hey, I'll pay you for a shot of acid!"
"Fuck yeah!" *falls off roof from drug trip and dies*
*Other terrorist overdoses*

[Ajunk]

No, you see, the beauty of TTT is that you can.

Is this why you rejoin to "fix" your -27 point score on a regular basis?

Related: Can we please not be punished as much for killing people who attack us / have killed innocents?

[Marphy Black]

Is this why you rejoin to "fix" your -27 point score on a regular basis?

I rejoined because I could see exactly who was alive and who was dead, even though we were in detective mode and nobody had bothered to identify half the bodies.

[Ajunk]

You teamkill a lot.

[Pestoolio]

Is this why you rejoin to "fix" your -27 point score on a regular basis?

Related: Can we please not be punished as much for killing people who attack us / have killed innocents?

You find playing as innocent un-fun. You also despise innocent killing unless there is concrete proof. There's a definite connection here.

Want to have more fun? Stir up trouble, make accusations, snoop around the map, and perhaps even kill someone on a hunch. That's what speeds up rounds and creates fun(ny) situations.

I'm not saying that everyone should start shooting each other 2 minutes into a round. But, if rounds are dragging on and innocents have little to do (which seems to be the precise cause of your "lack of fun"), then there's no harm in an itchy trigger finger.

[AndyTheGeeky]

Let's just hope that admins have the same feeling, and don't permaban you for RDMing.

[Ajunk]

You find playing as innocent un-fun. You also despise innocent killing unless there is concrete proof. There's a definite connection here.

Want to have more fun? Stir up trouble, make accusations, snoop around the map, and perhaps even kill someone on a hunch. That's what speeds up rounds and creates fun(ny) situations.

I'm not saying that everyone should start shooting each other 2 minutes into a round. But, if rounds are dragging on and innocents have little to do (which seems to be the precise cause of your "lack of fun"), then there's no harm in an itchy trigger finger.

Alternately, you could help think up a solution which speeds up rounds AND stops teamkilling instead of just being a gigantic asshole. Suggesting that more people kill on less of a hunch makes the game less fun for both sides if everyone's doing it equally. Fortunately for you, most people have common courtesy so you don't feel the bad end of it.

[Qloos]

Everyones ignoring my post

[Pestoolio]

Ajunk:

You say "teamkilling" as if it were a regular team deathmatch. It's not. The whole point of the game is that you have remarkably few ways of knowing who's on your team.

Innocent-on-innocent bloodshed is going to happen; in fact, it should happen. Right now, most people are extremely hesitant to kill in fear of being accused of RDMing. Is there really a need for a harsher system? It seems like you want every round to play out with near-perfect teamwork by the innocents. Again, not going to happen. Things are fine as is.

[Ajunk]

I'm not so much talking about innocents suspecting the wrong person and lynching him with embarrassing and hilarious consequences, that's a key part of the game. I'm also not talking about one player taking a guess when there's 3 people left and they're in a mexican standoff. I'm talking about people who, on nothing except their own unvoiced hunch, kill people without so much as a blink. This behavior, like you recommend two posts up, is what I refer to when I say teamkilling. I think tGB said something about it.

Anyway, clearly it sucks when you're a traitor and you're running around like any other player when suddenly someone pops one in your head. It's far easier to swallow when someone voices clear suspicions, or warns you not to come in/leave. In both cases you are aware of the threat and you can at least try to avoid it, hence it does not feel as random. For this reason, if you want to kill people without good evidence, it's beneficial for the game to at least voice your suspicions, see if people agree, etc. More enjoyable for everyone involved.

It's unfun for innocents, it's unfun for traitors, and if everyone starts doing it, it's unfun for TTT. You should be surviving the traitors, not your teammates. Believe me, I've gone many rounds where the only innocent deaths have been at the hands of traitors or people who explained their reasons well beforehand. Unfortunately, I've played just as many rounds where I'm teamkilled a few minutes in because someone thought I was "following" them.