Making Innocence More Fun: The Thread

[Ajunk]

Since the fun level of being innocent really needs a boost, and since brainstorming + tGB's thread isn't really a good combo, I made this thread.

In this thread, post your ideas on how you think being innocent could be more fun.

[Tyrant T100]

Maybe (no idea if it's at all possible) when bodies are found, scraps might be found on them, if a certain number of scraps are found they hint towards a potential killer.

[Andyp]

I mentioned something to Jossirossi which wasnt really a boost for the innocents, but my idea was how about more mapmakers design their maps with fewer primary weapons. Instead have loads of pistols and a few deagles, this would mean that if someone died by a mac 10 and there are only 2 in the map it would make it a bit easier to deduce who the traitors were and it would force them to be more conservative in some of their methods.

It could work now, simply because the detective mode would allow this to work, whereas before it would be too unfair on the traitors.

[Shadow_Archmagi]

I mentioned something to Jossirossi which wasnt really a boost for the innocents, but my idea was how about more mapmakers design their maps with fewer primary weapons. Instead have loads of pistols and a few deagles, this would mean that if someone died by a mac 10 and there are only 2 in the map it would make it a bit easier to deduce who the traitors were and it would force them to be more conservative in some of their methods.

It could work now, simply because the detective mode would allow this to work, whereas before it would be too unfair on the traitors.

This opens up the issue of

"Well both mac10s and both shotguns were nicked by innocents so now the traitors are basically fucked"

[Marphy Black]

I would rather like to first hear the arguments that substantiate the claim of the innocents' supposed unfun-ness rather than immediately begin to try and address a problem that hasn't been established in any fashion.

[Shadow_Archmagi]

I would rather like to first hear the arguments that substantiate

I believe that it's like this:

1. Innocents want to shoot traitors.
2. Traitors want to shoot innocents
3. Innocents do not know who traitors are; so they are forced to only retaliate (you can't just shoot people for looking a bit shifty)
4. This means that, until the "IT IS AJUNK LYNCH HIM" phase begins, innocents have the following options:
4A. Wander aimlessly
4B. Sit in a corner

[Tactiger9]

Why don't you give them objectives to do, so instead of just finding the killer they work towards a greater goal as well. Such as escaping an island, everyone works together to escape it yet the killer is really trying to just kill everyone...

[Tyrant T100]

Why don't you give them objectives to do, so instead of just finding the killer they work towards a greater goal as well. Such as escaping an island, everyone works together to escape it yet the killer is really trying to just kill everyone...

I think it's possible to program this into maps now. Maybe we could convert the zm maps to do this properly.

[Tactiger9]

I mean you don't want to try and make it like the ship but they had the right idea when it came to pre-occupying players.

[Marphy Black]

3. Innocents do not know who traitors are; so they are forced to only retaliate

And that's the idea. If you give the innocents some sort of method that identifies exact traitors in any shape or form, then the entire game mode will devolve into a deathmatch.

Right now, they have just enough information available that allows them to piece together some incriminating evidence, and that's half the fun/point.

(you can't just shoot people for looking a bit shifty)

No, you see, the beauty of TTT is that you can.

[worbat]

This is why we need in game checkers.

[eeny]

I'm all for mappers to put in a series of complex objectives that require people to spread out, while giving traitors a set of objectives that slow down or even kill some of the Terrorists.

[Sands]

Detective Mode:
*How many times a body was shot (post-mortem shots counted for hilarity?)
*How close the murderer was? (Meters?)
*^Who was in the proximity
*If the body has been moved(potential "finger prints")
*^Collecting finger prints from other players(Every player has this opportunity even traitors)


I'm blank for now maybe you could work around these?

[UnInvincible]

I'm gonna agree with Marphy on this one and say that being innocent really isn't that boring. I for one am a somewhat impatient person, so I'll go snooping around looking for traitors. This method can cause myself to look like a traitor, but sometimes I can get some really cool traitor kills, like the time I witnessed someone burn a corpse through the window of the pistol house in countrytrain.

Also, it's kinda up to map makers to make it more interesting for the innocents.

[Soduka]

I hold my opinion still; there is little TGB can do about this. It is up to the mappers to make interesting maps and things to do that are not over powered. TGB can add entities and fun things to aid mappers, but the mod itself cannot be the sole tool.

[OctaneHugo]

And that's the idea. If you give the innocents some sort of method that identifies exact traitors in any shape or form, then the entire game mode will devolve into a deathmatch.

Right now, they have just enough information available that allows them to piece together some incriminating evidence, and that's half the fun/point.
No, you see, the beauty of TTT is that you can.

True, but while doing these you're either wandering aimlessly or sitting in a corner. For Traitors, TTT is deathmatch with a twist, that you're outnumbered and must infiltrate the innocent ranks and kill them. For innocents, you do aforementioned wandering/sitting in a corner while shooting people you don't like or gathering evidence. However, the evidence is "Hm well that guy said 'Hello Worbat' right before he died but then Worbat got killed so who was with him".

[eeny]

That isn't fun for you?

[Marphy Black]

or sitting in a corner.

Which is your own prerogative. If you don't find camping to be entertaining, then don't camp. The game mode is in no way at fault here.

I don't find exploring the map with a vigilant eye on everything that occurs to be aimless wandering. It is a method to either lure unsuspecting traitors to attack or to catch one in the act. You are, in effect, a detective solving a mystery. With this mentality, anything can happen, and it often will. However, you can't perform this task, or any worthwhile activity for that matter, when sitting in a corner. Again, it's not the game's job to force you to be not dumb. If you choose to play in an unfun manner, then sooprise sooprise, you won't get much out of it.

[Shadow_Archmagi]

I don't find exploring the map with a vigilant eye on everything that occurs to be aimless wandering.

Well, you can't really keep a vigilant eye on everything that happens, since you can't see most of the map and you can't detect things you can't see.

You also can't explore somewhere you've already been a billion times.

[CrazyChicken]

I think that people entering barricades should be able to get killed and not counted as RDM. Since the first thing to do as an innocent is to find a cade and protect it. Yet so many people just climb in and freak out when they get shot by the cade protector. And then they report it as RDM. Even though you've given out 100 warnings not to enter. Its stupid to say someones the traitor who has been hiding in a cade for 8 minutes, and giving out warnings for 5 minutes.

If there was something official written about that in the rules it would give a slight advantage to the innocents.

Also when you die it would be nice if it told the person who got killed, if the killer was a traitor or innocent and what their name was. (ONLY TELLING THIS TO THE KILLED PLAYER) This would stop people from fighting for 10 minutes after they died blaming RDM on various people. And people can spot RDMers faster.

Thats my two cents. Tell me what you guys think.