Unrealistic Detective Kevlar Idea

[Charles445]

Easily fixed by not telling anybody what the actual damage reduction is at any given time.

Except for people who open up the code.

[eeny]

Except for people who open up the code.

Then make it decrease on a randomizing formula, people open up the code looking for advantages all the time anyway.

[Bad King Urgrain]

Then make it decrease on a randomizing formula, people open up the code looking for advantages all the time anyway.

Does a randomizing formula for an important balancing mechanic sound like a good idea?

You'd have to introduce a lot of randomness to make it effective, which means certain rounds detectives are just fucked and other rounds they're badasses.

[FF|NedStar]

Charles makes a very valid point, no matter how small it looks at first, if you can use game mechanics to your advantage then that is exactly what will happen.
Take the c4 for example, when an innocent tries to disarm the c4, a portion of the time on the c4 will be taken from the timer as a penalty. Seeing as you can easily check if time has been removed from the c4 by attempted disarming, the logical conclusion would be that the person who tried to disarm it is innocent.

Once the c4 is disarmed you got a potential traitor checking device, do note that I've never seen it happen on a large scale and it might not be all that wise to discuss certain exploitable mechanics in public.
However seeing as these are the official TTT forums I figured it wouldn't hurt to bring this out into the light.
On our server we got a policy of not exploiting game mechanics, of course its a bit hard to not notice someone is innocent when he tries to disarm the c4 and time is reduced.

While not everyone will know this is how the system works, anyone who follows these forums or checks the code will spot things like this in-game and use it to their advantage.

[Bad King Urgrain]

I can only think of two real fixes for this C4 thing:
1) Making the time penalty a lockout for that person. Traitors could then get the same results (ie. a lockout) as innocents, while they can't use it to make the C4 explode very quickly. Downside is that multiple people could each try a code, because a lockout for player A would not lock out player B. If it did lock out other people too, it's again abusable by traitors (just cause a lockout and prevent innocents from disarming). You could argue that cooperative disarming isn't that bad, after all those X people are vulnerable while they're messing with the bomb.

2) Limiting code guessing to Detectives, meaning innocents can only disarm a bomb with a Defuser. Would be a significant powerup for the C4, obviously.

Other options involve removing the time penalty, and for example making the codes longer/harder to get, but this will either make disarming trivial (due to the lack of time pressure) or impossible (due to puzzle complexity).

[Darkebrz]

I think there are points when servers just need to have good admins and game balance isn't needed.

[FF|NedStar]

Option one would make disarming require a bit too much team work, assuming it locks you out for the duration of the c4. You'll require 9 person to try every possible code, 10 if you don't input already known numbers.

Option two would nullify the guessing feature unless the penalty of disarming is removed/reduced. As of now I've not seen a single bomb been defused by random guessing due to the severe penalty, avoiding is the rule of thumb.

Perhaps rather then keeping the current system, possibly introduce a wire cut mechanic that solely relies on luck. While one could argue that luck removes skill factor it does bring its own tension and fun factor.
Lets say a 60 seconds c4 has 3 wires, you'll have 33% chance to cut the right wire and thus defuse the bomb, adding another wire for every 60 seconds after that (3 minute c4 would have 5 wires, 20% chance) would allow c4's with a longer duration to be harder to disarm.  
Of course the penalty for cutting the wrong wire would be met with an explosion to ensure a high risk factor while still allowing the chance of a successful defuse.

Perhaps in addition to this allow the traitor to pick the color code for the correct wire that needs to be cut which leaves a trace on their body (Much like the current c4 code on dead bodies).
Ultimately implementing this could proof to be more hassle then its worth, but it would solve the current problem as well as adding an action movie flavor to the c4.

I think there are points when servers just need to have good admins and game balance isn't needed.

What does being a good admin have to do with observing things in the game? Its like putting a sign down that says "do not read" (i.e. your mind will pick up these messages automatically when someone is attempting to defuse a c4)

[Darkebrz]

How about a traitor stays away from C4 they plant? If someone desfuses it they can try to quickly destroy it anyways, but really deserve to be caught.

[Rectal Exambot]

I can only think of two real fixes for this C4 thing:
1) Making the time penalty a lockout for that person. Traitors could then get the same results (ie. a lockout) as innocents, while they can't use it to make the C4 explode very quickly. Downside is that multiple people could each try a code, because a lockout for player A would not lock out player B. If it did lock out other people too, it's again abusable by traitors (just cause a lockout and prevent innocents from disarming). You could argue that cooperative disarming isn't that bad, after all those X people are vulnerable while they're messing with the bomb.

2) Limiting code guessing to Detectives, meaning innocents can only disarm a bomb with a Defuser. Would be a significant powerup for the C4, obviously.

Other options involve removing the time penalty, and for example making the codes longer/harder to get, but this will either make disarming trivial (due to the lack of time pressure) or impossible (due to puzzle complexity).

I have always loved the safe game from Tunnels of Doom.

Random number between 0000 and 9999, it tells you if it is higher or lower and how many are correct...

I would like a system like that, and you get maybe n. The n is based on the set time and there is little or no indication on how many attempts that are remaining. It could also have a semi-random spread.

Every attempt could be fatal, but since it doesn't effect time you can't go, attempt to defuse it NAO and kill them if it doesn't explode. After the last attempt is used it explodes.

I would also like more maps that you NEED to defuse the C4 or bad stuff goes down and shit gets real. Perhaps C4 if planted for over  3(+- 1) minutes it can activate events in a map, perhaps it could cause a wall to collapse and kill those on the other side, or activate a trap or even cause the whole map to fall apart causing killer lava, earth quakes , collapsing roofs/floors or zombie attacks.

I would like maybe a map based on traitors planting C4s and radios trying to bait people to waste their time so that the real C4 can go off and make them pay, causing hellish events in which the odds are heavily stacked in the traitors favour by causing major havoc with the map and allowing traitors safe passage way between areas.

[Bad King Urgrain]

Option one would make disarming require a bit too much team work, assuming it locks you out for the duration of the c4. You'll require 9 person to try every possible code, 10 if you don't input already known numbers.

It would lock you out for X seconds, kind of like how the time penalty reduces it by X seconds. So for long-timer C4 it would lock you out for a minute and stuff.

But if I'm changing the C4 disarm system anyway, I do see the appeal of a wire setup. The only potential problem: traitors could use it to detonate the C4 instantly by intentionally cutting the wrong wire. I suppose I could make every wire be a disarm for traitors. Then an observing innocent can't tell if it was luck or traitorness. Because a wrong wire equals death rather than just a number going down, much of the disarm code issues don't apply anyway.

I'll have a think about how I could do the wire thing graphically.