Punishing Innocents killing Innocents

[TheCze]

The major issue I see is when innocents have to kill AFKs. Grievers are a big issue but that can be fixed by admins banning. AFKs can not.

You're right but maybe there should be another solution for afk people.
Maybe BKU could code something that kills an afk after standing around for a certain time without moving (and several warnings of cause)

[JossiRossi]

What if I kill an innocent who just killed an innocent? Why should I be punished for killing someone acting like a traitor?

[Ajunk]

I think just having a native votekick option is a good start, then see if actual hardcoded punishment is needed.

[that guy]

I think just having a native votekick option is a good start, then see if actual hardcoded punishment is needed.

This so much im surprised we still dont have votekick/voteban it would be very helpful when no admins are on.

[zoobird]

Have any of you ever played the Ship?  On the Source version when a player kills too many innocents they automatically kicked/banned from a server.  Also, if you are caught killing somebody you are sent to jail.  Perhaps, with servers using ULX whenever you kill an innocent you are sent to jail for a period of time leaving you vulnerable to attacks that round.  

[Officer_BUlbock]

Any punishment ought to be more severe if the player kills someone before the traitors have killed anyone, seeing as they're much more likely to be acting like asses in that situation.

I'm in favour of a health-based system. Yes health isn't a huge deal in ttt, but that's good because someone who wrongly kills on a hunch every once in a while only is only at a slight disadvantage- you gamble and you lose- whereas repeat offenders start off each round with 20hp which would put them at a severe disadvantage.

Votekick/voteban would be good too.

[Secone]

What if we did that one thing some CS:S/whatever game servers have, when you die from another innocent a message pops up saying "do you wish to punish or forgive this person whatever whatever", just throwing out that idea

[Broadsword]

Okay here is my idea.

Before first traitor kill
1 kill means -30-50 health
2 kills means you sit out the next round

After first traitor kill
1 kill means -5-10 health
2 kills means -30-50 health
3 means sit out a round
A traitor kill can negate the effect of 3 innocent kills meaning if you accidently kill a traitor and 3 innocents you only lose the -30-50 health. If you get a 4th innocent kill you will sit out the next round as if you killed 3 innocents.

I think this is a fair system because when I am play TTT and I kill 1 innocent I think oops, I messed up, it happens.
When I kill 2 people I think I really messed up badly and I curse myself for it.
I hardly ever kill 3 innocents but I think if I did pull that off in a single round without killing a traitor then I would accept punishment. The reason a traitor kill can negate a 3rd kill is because sometimes when taking down a traitor confusion can result in some friendly fire. Of course this does not give them a free innocent kill it only saves them from sitting out once.

Perhaps it would be better to have
2 kills means -30
3 kills means -50
4 means sit out

What do you guys think

[Secone]

I think this is a fair system because when I am play TTT and I kill 1 innocent I think oops, I messed up, it happens.

I feel the same way when I am play TTT

[zoobird]

What if we did that one thing some CS:S/whatever game servers have, when you die from another innocent a message pops up saying "do you wish to punish or forgive this person whatever whatever", just throwing out that idea

That works. 

[CrazyChicken]

I have an idea.
First offence (1 innocent killed) warning no punishment
Second offence (2-4 inno kills) health decrease
Third offence (5-7 kills) speed and health decrease
Forth Offence (8-plus) they lose traitor credits and the other punishments

All punishments take place the next round. The number of innocent kills will stay with the player but are shown only to the player, like a score. After each round the where they havent killed an innocent the penalty number goes down and the punishment lessens.

[BR@VO]

1 any health decrease ideas is stoopid
2 vote kill,kick,ban idea isnt bad but its isnt very good becouse in some situations ban/kill/kick some people will use to gain profit only for themselves(its like rtv: normal map on server, someone says that 1 this map is bad 2 he know better map 3 he just dont like this map, and say that all must rtv.in 50% result people dont like next map.)
3 afk idea: if 7-10 min's(timer counts when he is alive , when he is dead it stops) mouse of 1 player doesnt move when he is alive then move him to specs or run vote to kick this guy .if it will work then there will be no need in rdming afks...
4 any punishments (except ban) doesnt work on rdmers, i saw somewhere report system where some 1 reports that another guy playing not by rules .if it will work then there will no need in 24/7 admins becouse admin will come to play on that server, when he is dead he'll read report list,logs and ban some1 if it need .

[TheCze]

votekicks would benefit from a new point in the score tab, showing how many team kills (innocents killing innocents, traitor killing traitors) one person has.

[Bad King Urgrain]

Don't plugins like ULX do votekicks? Seems like that should be their core business. Anyway, I don't think they'd solve anything, like any solution that puts the (non-admin) players in charge of enforcing things. It'll only create drama spats between specific players, while the rest is apathetic and just presses one of the buttons (because they were nowhere near the events). Literally the worst thing that can happen to a game right now is when two people whine for rounds on end about whether one of them RDMed the other or not. It is incredibly annoying. Imagine that but for every votekick.

The whole problem is that the game itself does not discourage unfun gameplay (which is bad design). It's much easier to accept the game punishing you for doing dumb things than another player.

Anyway, I'm not going to discuss or respond to specific systems here because everyone seems to have their own pet proposal. I have some ideas that I think could work, and I'm going to do some design work (ie. thinking) on them over the next few weeks.

One thing you can do is post situations that any sort of punishing system will have to deal with or solve in your opinion. AFK stuff has been mentioned, killing an innocent who killed an innocent has been mentioned, that kind of thing.

[eeny]

IMO votekick/voteban are terrible, giving individual players that much power over others leads to bad things.
Also useing it is very rude to any admin who is online, it is basically saying "Hey, fuck you. You can't do your job and should have your powers removed because you won't bend to my will, faggot."

[ball2hi]

IMO votekick/voteban are terrible, giving individual players that much power over others leads to bad things.
Also useing it is very rude to any admin who is online, it is basically saying "Hey, fuck you. You can't do your job and should have your powers removed because you won't bend to my will, faggot."

Well then get over it lol. Votekick should be automatically in TTT gamemode itself, maybe make an action so that Admins can veto a vote. Although dont make the votekick get in the way of TTT, basically, someone types in !votekick noob and it will say in chat "Player X wants to votekick noob. (x out x players remaining till kicked.). Type !votekick noob if you want him votekicked."
As for voteban, no voteban.

[eeny]

Votekick should be automatically in TTT gamemode itself,

What? NO! Thats a terrible idea! Votekick/ban are the absolute worst ways to handle any situation ever.

Well then get over it lol.

Or players can just realize that they aren't always right, and if they feel an admin is not doing something right that they can simply speak to a higher admin, or the server owner. Seriously taking the situation into your own hands with a vote is as bad as RDMing the guy in my opinion.

[that guy]

IMO votekick/voteban are terrible, giving individual players that much power over others leads to bad things.

I dont like that statement because votekick/voteban is just that, a vote, you are not giving individual players any power but you are giving the server a way to get rid of minges/greifers when an admin is not on.

[eeny]

I dont like that statement because votekick/voteban is just that, a vote, you are not giving individual players any power but you are giving the server a way to get rid of minges/greifers when an admin is not on.

Unfortuantly as was said previously, only one or two people ever know why the vote went up in the first place, and everyone votes yes "For the lulz".

[Rotinaj]

Votekicks/bans don't work as intended. Ever.