a balanced anonymous detective idea + related class idea. (tl;dr ahead)

[Johny 1337]

after long registration attempts on this forum (im looking at you, anti bot clock and 8 character passwords) and login fails i finally got on this forum to share an hours worth of brainstorming when my internet was down (yes btw i registered just so i could post this)

some people have suggest the inclusion of making detectives anonymous due to:

A. getting knifed in the back within 30 seconds of round start as detective.
B. subject a happening every time they are detective.

before you ask, subject A and B are both true for me :(

i brainstormed on this subject and came to the conclusion that all det.s being anon would be noobish so i came to a rather large conclusion on how to make a balanced version of this idea.

1 detective would be anon, no matter what so...

1 det = he is anonymous

2 dets = 1 anon 1 public

X dets = 1 anon everyone else public.


this anonymous detective would be anonymous to nearly all (you will see what im talking about later) innocents, but other dets could see him.

however the single anonymous detective himself is unbalanced too so i came up with a class to counter the anonymous detective (he isnt exactly his enemy though).

i present...

THE DOUBLE AGENT!

*knows who the anonymous detective is
*can talk into traitor chat but cannot hear it (he does not know who the traitors are, but he can help them)
*does not need to be killed by traitors and can be alive when traitors win by killing innocents
*appears innocent to everyone (yes, everyone)
*if killed someone can pick up his briefcase (if innocent they become the DA, if traitor see below)
*when a traitor picks the case up they are not told who the anon is but if they look at him it has blue text on his name saying "anonymous detective" (same goes for innocents who take the case)
*goal does not involve killing
*can side with the traitors or innocents (see below more info)

siding with the sides:

the DA can be hired by either side for 2 equipment credits. when a memeber of the traitors or the anonymous det have 2 eq creds they can go into the buy menu and select the DA.
when this happens the DA can accept or deny. if hired by the traitors he becomes a traitor himself and the anon det is revealed to all traitors (he could do this for free over his link into traitor voice earlier however).

if hired by the anon det, his link into traitor chat is gone and he is given a DNA scanner (he is not a det though). He can still be killed to find the anon det.

however being a double agent he can be bought out by the other side still (for 3 eq this time) and help that side instead, whilst keeping under the cover provided by his previous employer.

the DA, can choose to not be hired by either and just sabotage or help both sides. his goal is only to survive.

and last but not least for him

*if he is killed by an innocent when he is unnafilliated with either side they lose no karma, if he is killed when hired by traitors they gain karma, if killed when hired by the anon they lose karma. however if he kills an innocent while unnafilliated to traitors he only loses half the karma a normal player would.

hope you guys like what i had to say. i hope badking likes this twist on anonymous detective. good day everyone.

EDIT:

forgot to mention, via the link in traitor voice he gets, he can tell them who the anon is.

[catbarf]

The game does not need yet more confusion in the form of ever-more-complex classes.

[Marphy Black]

THE DOUBLE AGENT!

*knows who the anonymous detective is
*can talk into traitor chat but cannot hear it (he does not know who the traitors are, but he can help them)

That immediately defeats the purpose of the "anonymous" detective. If the double agent can instantly pinpoint who this individual is and has means of covertly communicating with the traitors, then how is this any better than the situation you're complaining about? The anonymous detective is just going to be ratted out first thing and then be no better off than the plain and identified detectives. If anything, he's is at a greater disadvantage since regular innocents can't trust him.

[Johny 1337]

That immediately defeats the purpose of the "anonymous" detective. If the double agent can instantly pinpoint who this individual is and has means of covertly communicating with the traitors, then how is this any better than the situation you're complaining about? The anonymous detective is just going to be ratted out first thing and then be no better off than the plain and identified detectives. If anything, he's is at a greater disadvantage since regular innocents can't trust him.

Thats the point :paranoid:

[Marphy Black]

Then what's the point of the anonymous detective? It seems as if your original purpose was to make detectives more fun in your eyes, but your intent is immediately countered by this new fanfic class of yours. So it only takes a second for the anonymous detective to no longer be anonymous thanks to the class whose sole knowledge is to instantly know this person's identity. Great idea!

[Johny 1337]

The point was not to have a truly anon detective, it would be nooby. the point was to have a detective that would survive slightly longer then his publicly know counterparts.

plus the DA does not need to tell the traitors about who the anon detective is, he is the check and balance to prevent the (semi) anon detective from becoming a (potential) force to be reckoned with. if he was truly 100% anonymous it could be unbalanced, so i came up with the DA to:

keep it balanced
provide a tactical objective to make the game more interesting.

btw, the main reason i came up with this is because the server i go on lacks much confusion and we need something interesting in the mix, before our admins and players get bored of it and decide to convert it to a parasite (an old gamemode pre OB, similar to TTT.) (And they already are considering converting it to that mode, so this would be what they wanted to keep the mode interesting to them)

this suggestion was kinda made on behalf of the clan i am in, just to let you guys know.

[Nel]

I don't know why people suggest classes. I have no plans to add more complexity to that area of the game.

[phoenixf129]

Why not just Color detectives the same as innos and only make them distinguishable by their hat?

[OctaneHugo]

the point was to have a detective that would survive slightly longer then his publicly know counterparts.

The traitors know his identity at the beginning of the round, just like they know the identities of the other detectives. He'd be at an even bigger disadvantage because the Innocents wouldn't trust him.

Not to mention the utter stupidity in having a class that can change in the middle of a round.

[Bad King Urgrain]

Really the only class/role-related thing I'm even vaguely considering is allowing detectives to be "covert" and appear as normal innocents until they explicitly choose to reveal themselves. So you'd start covert, and once you're revealed you can't go back. It would obviously fix the "killed early" problem pretty effectively, I think, and would add a strategic choice for the detective (when/if to reveal). Staying covert all round is not necessarily a good idea, because traitors can then claim to be the detective and such shenanigans.

The major downside is the added complexity new players have to deal with. I have some interface ideas to help with that though (unobtrusive popup after player is selected as detective where he must choose between staying covert or revealing immediately, with the default choice being reveal and having a 5-10 sec timer before auto-selecting, so newbies would just end up as standard revealed detectives).

I haven't spent much time thinking through the idea yet, but seeing as I prefer it over every class idea that's been posted so far I figured I'd mention it.

[Johny 1337]

alright, lock this thread now please.

thanks.

[Bad King Urgrain]

Nope. I've just posted about an idea and want to see if anyone has input on it.

[Meta-Stick]

Lock it, so we can't discuss it? Nope.

Anyways... Gonna be honest I think as it might lead to a safer detective traitor wise, there's always it being more dangerous because of retarded innocents, but I guess that'd be the time to reveal yourself. lol xD

Also how would he reveal himself? *puts hat on* Hey guys, I'm a detective. *wink*

EDIT: you were already ahead of me lol

[Darkebrz]

I really like the idea of a covert detective. Would they show up as detective if they were killed when still covert? (You find a pipe in his pocket. He was a detective!)
Honestly I see revealing yourself only be useful when people are on the verge of killing you.

[Rotinaj]

I really like the idea of a covert detective. Would they show up as detective if they were killed when still covert? (You find a pipe in his pocket. He was a detective!)
Honestly I see revealing yourself only be useful when people are on the verge of killing you.

that's the point

[Bad King Urgrain]

You'd reveal yourself by pressing a button somewhere.

Your corpse would show you were a detective.

The reason to reveal would be to make innocents trust you. If you scanned or otherwise detected a traitor but you didn't get a chance to kill him, you could tell other people to kill him, but they may not trust you unless they know you are a real detective.

An issue is that traitors would not know when a covert detective scans them, so that detective could quietly scan and suddenly shoot the traitor. Currently, traitors can try to avoid being near detectives to prevent that. I think showing a message to traitors who get scanned could help there. They could then get out of dodge ASAP.

Perhaps a covert detective wouldn't get access to equipment buying until he reveals himself. It would make revealing a more juicy proposition.

None of this is definite by the way. I'm basically brainstorming here.

[Darkebrz]

Perhaps a covert detective wouldn't get access to equipment buying until he reveals himself. It would make revealing a more juicy proposition.

Yes. Definitely.

[mysquirrel]

Make it also cost a Credit for Hiding?

[Bad King Urgrain]

Being covert wouldn't be a choice, it would be the default status when you become detective, so I'm not sure that would work. Perhaps a covert detective wouldn't gain credits for killing traitors and such, but I don't that would really be necessary. You can't use them until you reveal yourself anyway, and once you reveal yourself you can't go back.

[OctaneHugo]

That could make detectives overpowered, though. They don't appear as detectives but they can walk around and use the DNA scanner, and then just run up and blast the traitor in the face. Then they can say "I saw him burn a body" and keep cover as an Innocent.

Also, people are going to think they're being RDMed, or decide they can RDM and just say they're the detective. It's not a major issue, but it's there.